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 Gun Talk

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JesusLovesYou
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PostSubject: Gun Talk   Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:49 pm

I was wondering about the necessity for gun control with recent shooting in CT, and White House threats to restrain it. I too had wondered the need for the heavy ammunition, or the heavy weaponry type guns. Today I heard a video of a lady frustrated with legislature, and such restricting gun use, or trying to limit it, or the type, and amount of ammunition. She made perfect sense in her argument, if you had a crowd of people you were trying to protect yourself from she would need something more than what a small handgun would offer. The only problem is that doesn't seem to happen as often as one person going off on a rampage. Do you think things are causing a fear in people to have more than what's reasonable?
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otherone
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:33 pm

I don't think it's fear as much as it is hurt...... half the people I know have been just wanting to break down and cry their eyes out, but as I am, I'm afraid to start, or I might not ever stop.

These people pushing gun control have been doing so sense 2004, and they are just using this tragedy to push their agenda...... and it's offensive to me for them to do so.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:42 pm

These things aren't plausible at all. Even where I lived before when all my neighbors were having their garages broken into my neighbor, who was Catholic and not the least bit liberal, said if he were to get a gun even for the purpose of protecting his kids it is far more likely someone would break in when he was not there and steal it and it would end up being used in a crime than it is for him to catch somebody in the act and have a chance to use it.

My aunt has bipolar disorder, and we suspect a similar mental illness with my cousin, but nobody ever knew for sure. Nobody knows why, but he started firing a gun from the window of his apartment and not apparently aiming at anybody, but the SWAT team came in and fatally shot him. The gun he used was given to him by my grandpa because he thought he lived in a bad neighborhood and needed it for protection.

It's your choice to have a handgun for personal protection. I wouldn't object and I've certainly thought about it myself, but to say you need an assault rifle because somehow in some situation you're going to defend yourself from the military, domestic or foreign, is a sign you're too crazy to own one. If you're reasoning is that you're fascinated by it and like to fire it at the range that would make more sense, but at what cost? Sure, criminals may get their hands on them, but we still have speed limits while every year a few reckless drivers ignore them and kill people and nobody has suggested that speed limits are worthless. Re-enacting the assault weapons ban would at least take them off store shelves, discourage manufacture of them and before long there would be fewer of them available to be used for this sort of thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:47 pm

I think people need to define assault rifles.

I have a very short barrel 12 gage shotgun for protection at home. I decided on that so I'd not be so likely to shoot through a window or wall and hurt one of my neighbors. They have little kids.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:55 pm

Exactly. We have arms to protect us from the Government, take the equality away and the government takes over. We don't need gun control like the liberals want what we need is to start looking at how America treats mental heath and stopping using liberal ideas in society.

This tragedy I lay right at the liberals feet, they ruined society since the late 60's and now they have reaped the evil they sown.

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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:37 am

Mexico has stronger gun restrictions than the US... at least this is what I heard yesterday. It hasn't helped!

The only people who will abide by the law are the ones who only want to use them for defense. The criminals will end up with more gun power then the honest people.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:02 am

Historically, nations with gun control are no safer. In this country up until 1934 you could buy a machine through the mail, but we never had these types of crimes until after LBJ enacted more strict gun control.

Face it. Taking away assault weapons from law abiding people will not keep criminals from getting them. I personally don't see the need to have them. A shotgun is the preferred weapon for home defense, for the reasons OO stated as well as not having to be an expert marksman to use it.

I guess the rub is, that the day may come when people do need assault weapons. If we are ever attacked, if there is a revolution or civil war, or if riots should break out and people go from house to house looting, or a solar flare fries all electronics in this country and we become a third world nation overnight. I fear in that situation, the vast majority of people would not work to get what they need but would take it from those weaker than themselves.

There are reasons to have them, albeit extreme and possibly unlikely.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:15 am

HisDaughter wrote:
Mexico has stronger gun restrictions than the US... at least this is what I heard yesterday. It hasn't helped!

The only people who will abide by the law are the ones who only want to use them for defense. The criminals will end up with more gun power then the honest people.




Do you remember "Fast and Furious"? Who do you think got the majority of those weapons? I'll tell you--the Mexican drug cartels. And where have they utilitized a good number of said weapons? In our southern states that border Mexico. And who are their targets? The U.S. citizens who are protecting our borders as law enforcement officers from varying agencies. Who sold those criminals those guns? Our own U.S. government, who is now denying any responsibility for their screwed up idea. Mexico is not our friend--and apparently, neither is our government.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:10 pm

HighBeams wrote:
HisDaughter wrote:
Mexico has stronger gun restrictions than the US... at least this is what I heard yesterday. It hasn't helped!

The only people who will abide by the law are the ones who only want to use them for defense. The criminals will end up with more gun power then the honest people.




Do you remember "Fast and Furious"? Who do you think got the majority of those weapons? I'll tell you--the Mexican drug cartels. And where have they utilitized a good number of said weapons? In our southern states that border Mexico. And who are their targets? The U.S. citizens who are protecting our borders as law enforcement officers from varying agencies. Who sold those criminals those guns? Our own U.S. government, who is now denying any responsibility for their screwed up idea. Mexico is not our friend--and apparently, neither is our government.

As bad of an idea as that was, you do realize the state AGs and local prosecutors from those border states were in on it, right?

I'd like to see how we compare to other nations with similar socioeconomic conditions. I've seen some very general charts that put the US and Italy in the same category while the rest of Europe and Canada is much lower, but it just gave a range and not exact numbers.

You can pick a random city with strong gun laws, like New York (since Bloomberg has been on the news so much calling for stricter laws lately) and find their murder rate is 3.86 per 100,000 and pick a city with presumably lax gun laws like Houston and easily find they have a murder rate of 9 per 100,000.

I picked those cities completely at random and did not see a list comparison. I know you can find anomalies, but I bet the pattern holds true most of the time.

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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:41 pm

you're looking at murder rates in cities with drastically different settings and populations. Also how were these murders committed..... Guns, knives bats or fingers?????

One may or may not be worse than the other in our setting...
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:24 am

otherone wrote:
you're looking at murder rates in cities with drastically different settings and populations. Also how were these murders committed..... Guns, knives bats or fingers?????

One may or may not be worse than the other in our setting...

And how many of those guns were obtained legally? The CT shooting was horrible. But the guns didn't belong to the guy who did the shooting. He took them from his mother and he killed her with his own gun.

Gun laws will only be followed by law abiding citizens, not criminals.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:06 am

if you want to see the real problem behind this tragedy try getting the book "Don't Let Anyone Know" by Helen Coffey. It is a very open story of the failure of our health care system and common mistakes families make concerning people with mental problems. Her daughter committed suicide a couple of years ago and Helen opens up for everyone to see how things like this can happen in hopes that it might help others. It's a lot easier in hind sight to see where things went wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:53 pm

otherone wrote:
if you want to see the real problem behind this tragedy try getting the book "Don't Let Anyone Know" by Helen Coffey. It is a very open story of the failure of our health care system and common mistakes families make concerning people with mental problems. Her daughter committed suicide a couple of years ago and Helen opens up for everyone to see how things like this can happen in hopes that it might help others. It's a lot easier in hind sight to see where things went wrong.

I think you're absolutely correct there, and there's a ton of other societal issues to address, but I still want to address the availability of guns. They were talking about a poll on the news last night that shows a majority of NRA members supported several different measures that have been proposed in the past, yet the NRA opposed them all. One was aimed at terrorists and called for simply cross-referencing the background checks with the no-fly list and the NRA opposed it. With these assault rifles there's the gun show/private sale loophole, inherited weapons, etc. and there's no way to know who has them. They keep better track of cars than they do guns.

With that said, Canadians have guns and don't have the kinds of problems we do and Japan is where most of the violent video games originate. Of course both of those countries have better ranked health care systems, but a big part of it is this acceptance of anti-social behavior. Vandalism, bullying, deceitfulness, and irresponsibility are accepted as normal for teens in this country.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:42 pm

the reason that we don't want to cross check the no fly list is because it takes a court proceeding to keep you from being on the no gun permit list and God only knows who puts people on the no fly list.

I've had military people threaten to put me on the no fly list just because they were upset with me for looking at them with a disgusting look from the way they were treating their workers.

it would not be safe...... also it is possible to get removed from the no gun permit list if you are not there for some good reason and the no fly list is just about permanent.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:40 pm

I just read somewhere that Sylvester Stallone & Arnold Schwartzenegger are for gun control. Thought that was interesting with as many movies they've made, but maybe that isn't. Maybe it's a real advantage point from their point, but my husand was saying if they'd stop making such movies then it would seem they'd have a point.

So, with the stories of conspiracy flying thru the internet have you made peace with God that it was truly a school shooting not staged? I have because of Christian Artists that took the time to go out there to the families & give them a concert of hope & healing. Something tells me that it being phoney would expose more. I came across this interesting read & thought it worth posting:

Sandy Hook and Jesus Mythicisms
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2013/01/sandy-hook-and-jesus-mythicisms.html

The Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory and Why it Matters
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christandpopculture/2013/01/the-false-sandy-hook-false-flag-attack-and-why-it-matters/

I am not aware of the site's beliefs, but thought he makes interesting points in a few of the articles I've read.
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PostSubject: Re: Gun Talk   Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:47 pm

Relevant Magazine has a new article: Four Things Christians Need to Remember About Gun Control.
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/4-things-christians-need-remember-about-gun-control
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