Apostolic Christian Forum

Where Apostolic Christians (Anglicans, Catholics, Othrodox, etc). can fellowship
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  RegisterRegister  Log in  
Welcome please read the rules before you register. Thank you

Share | 
 

 Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
HisDaughter
Love the forums!
Love the forums!
avatar

Posts : 64
Join date : 2012-12-11

PostSubject: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:27 am

Michigan's state House has passed two controversial "right to work" bills, both which effectively prohibit unions from requiring workers to pay labor dues.

Both bills, one for the private sector and the other for government employees, cleared the Senate last week.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/December/Mich-Lawmakers-Okay-Right-to-Work-Bills/

Back to top Go down
HighBeams
Active
Active


Posts : 46
Join date : 2012-12-12
Location : In the Desert

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:36 pm

I have mixed feelings about this. Basically, for workers, they're still kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. With unions, you're forced to join them and support them however they deem appropriate. With Right-To-Work, the power is mostly in the hands of the employers. True, you do have a larger choice of jobs and employers. However, the trade-off is lower wages and employers able to trump up minimal reasons to legitimately fire you if they desire. My DH was fired twice like that. (The last time, it was 2 weeks before his 55th birthday and in a year when the company would have had to pay him a larger bonus at the end of the year.) Most cases that make it to court are lost by the employee.

I do slightly prefer the Right-To-Work over the Unions, but I don't really celebrate either one very much.
Back to top Go down
BeyondBlessed
Love the forums!
Love the forums!
avatar

Posts : 88
Join date : 2012-12-13
Age : 32
Location : Indiana

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:39 pm

With my grandfather having started working in coal mines at age 13 and both my mother and father work in a union factory, it does hit home. Where I work they make sure you know at every turn that you are an "at will" employee and can be terminated for any reason. Indiana has always been an "at will" state and now a "right to work" state. There is no protection at all.

Benefits and pay don't seem to vary too much between union and non-union shops. Where I think we'd benefit from a union is the employee protection, some formal procedures for the company, and guaranteed days off. My department is an exception, but when I started so much was dictated by personal drama between the supervisors and employees. Who's sleeping with who and who your drinking buddies are dictated your promotions and if you upset your supervisor for any reason you were worried about being fired the rest of the week. What does affect us, though, is changing the production schedule at the last minute, taking away our days off the afternoon beforehand, blatant sexism, and revoking already approved vacations and making it so you can't take them and end up losing the pay. That's happened to people twice since I've been there and one guy lost about $2,000 in reservations he'd made for his family.

We've been through union campaigns before and the company has always hired LRI (Labor Relations Institute) to crush it. The lies and threats always put me off and I always voted for the union. The attitude I always got was "trust us, you're too stupid to know anything about this business." To an extent I got the same vibe from some of the organizers.

I don't know, if I were in the statehouse writing bills I probably would make it harder for the established unions, but write some kind of workers bill of rights. Without that, however, there's no way I'd support RTW.
Back to top Go down
otherone
Senior Member
Senior Member
avatar

Posts : 120
Join date : 2012-12-11
Location : Oklahoma

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:54 pm

I am so glad I'm retired... way too much stress over all this.
Back to top Go down
http://sam.evans.org
HisDaughter
Love the forums!
Love the forums!
avatar

Posts : 64
Join date : 2012-12-11

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:01 pm

I live in a "right to work" state. We have seen new manufacturers come into our state in resent years. This has been good for our state. I have heard they have excellent benefits.
Back to top Go down
Hansc
Senior Member
Senior Member


Posts : 117
Join date : 2012-12-11
Location : S.F Bay Area

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:59 am

otherone wrote:
I am so glad I'm retired... way too much stress over all this.

I retired in 2008, but went back to work. I have to give two unions money every month. I don't actually have to join, but I have to give them money, so I joined. When I worked as an investigator I was in AFSCME, now I'm in two unions the Cal Faculty Union and the Cal Teachers Assoc. Both take money and send it to the Democratic party.
Back to top Go down
BeyondBlessed
Love the forums!
Love the forums!
avatar

Posts : 88
Join date : 2012-12-13
Age : 32
Location : Indiana

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:48 am

If a simple majority of employees felt the union was worthless they could vote it out. PGW (Pittsburgh Glass Works, formerly PPG) has a plan here that's voted the union in and out several times that I remember. I disagree that employees of union shops should not have to pay dues. Most people don't realize a fraction of the benefits they get from the government, so let's make taxes optional until they convince me I should pay.

I don't believe unions can give money directly to a politician or party either. The Laborers here have a PAC and they raise money separately for it. They might spend some dues money educating about the candidates and where they stand.
Back to top Go down
HisDaughter
Love the forums!
Love the forums!
avatar

Posts : 64
Join date : 2012-12-11

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:58 am

IMO people should not be required to pay dues. If Unions are so good then let them sell their product, instead of using thug like tactics out of their anger.

Back to top Go down
otherone
Senior Member
Senior Member
avatar

Posts : 120
Join date : 2012-12-11
Location : Oklahoma

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:55 am

HisDaughter wrote:
IMO people should not be required to pay dues. If Unions are so good then let them sell their product, instead of using thug like tactics out of their anger.


In Oklahoma we don't have to. My wife was a teacher for over 20 years and she would not join the union and didn't have to pay anything to them...

We sort of don't go along with a lot of things that California does.
We also a couple of years ago declared ourselves a sovereign state and told the Federal Government that we were not going to recognize anything they did that was not constitutional.
Back to top Go down
http://sam.evans.org
otherone
Senior Member
Senior Member
avatar

Posts : 120
Join date : 2012-12-11
Location : Oklahoma

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:08 am

Oklahoma is one of only three states that Obama did not win even one county in the
last election... While everyone is focusing on Arizona ’s new law, look
what Oklahoma has been doing!!!!

An update from Oklahoma :

Oklahoma law passed, 37 to 9 an amendment to place the Ten Commandments
on the front entrance to the state capitol. The feds in D.C., along
with the ACLU, said it would be a mistake. Hey this i
s a conservative state, based on Christian values...! HB 1330

Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway.

Oklahoma recently passed a law in the state to incarcerate all illegal
immigrants, and ship them back to where they came from unless they want
to get a green card and become an American citizen. They all scattered.
HB 1804. This was against the advice of the Federal Government, and the
ACLU, they said it would be a mistake.

Guess what.......... Oklahoma did it anyway.

Recently we passed a law to include DNA samples from any and all
illegal's to the Oklahoma database, for criminal investigative purposes.
Pelosi said it was unconstitutional SB 1102

Guess what......... Oklahoma did it anyway.


we passed a law, declaring Oklahoma as a Sovereign
state, not under the Federal Government directives. Joining Texas ,
Montana and Utah as the only states to do so.
More states are likely
to follow: Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Carolina's, Tennessee,
Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, West Virginia, Mississippi and Florida.
Save your confederate money, it appears the South is about to rise up
once again. HJR 1003

The federal Government has made bold steps
to take away our guns. Oklahoma, a week ago, passed a law confirming
people in this state have the right to bear arms and transport them in
their vehicles. I'm sure that was a setback for the criminals The
Liberals didn't like it -- But....
Guess what........... Oklahoma did it anyway.

Just this month, the state has voted and passed a law that ALL drivers’
license exams will be printed in English, and only English, and no
other language. They have been called racist for doing this, but the
fact is that ALL of the road signs are in English only. If you want to
drive in Oklahoma , you must read and write English. Really simple.

By the way, the Liberals don't like any of this either

Guess what...who cares... Oklahoma is doing it anyway.
Back to top Go down
http://sam.evans.org
JesusLovesYou
Senior Member
Senior Member
avatar

Posts : 105
Join date : 2012-12-11
Location : Far North

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:19 pm

Welcome aboard, BB.
I agree, HB. Union didn't work well for my hubby. It was a long time before he could land a job, then was put in a job from someone who didn't do their job, and then lost his job so that guy could have his job back. In our experience the union didn't work.
Hans, I hear from many who retired going back to work. In this economy who can afford to retire? 80 seems to be the new retirement age.
Back to top Go down
historyb1
Active
Active
avatar

Posts : 27
Join date : 2012-12-11
Age : 46
Location : in a house

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:36 pm

I am glad Mich did this. I can't stand unions because of their liberalism
Back to top Go down
BeyondBlessed
Love the forums!
Love the forums!
avatar

Posts : 88
Join date : 2012-12-13
Age : 32
Location : Indiana

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:03 pm

otherone wrote:

By the way, the Liberals don't like any of this either

Interesting you chose these examples because while the Chamber has been pushing right-to-work legislation in several states, they've opposed many of the things you mention. Don't forget the Chamber was the single largest donor to congressional Republicans in 2010 when they took the House.

We had an Arizona-style immigration bill introduced into our state house last session and the Chamber opposed it along the largest corporations based in this state (Eli Lilly, Wellpoint, et al.) and the association of realtors. Right now the Chamber and even Mitch Daniels are expressing their reservations about a gay marriage ban. They say it will hurt recruitment.

There's a rift between the Republicans that promote these issues, which happen to represent all the counties that nobody lives in and contribute relatively nothing to the state's economy, and the Republicans that need the support of the Chamber to win. They rely more on the Chamber than the Democrats do on the three largest unions (at least) based on 2010 numbers.
Back to top Go down
BeyondBlessed
Love the forums!
Love the forums!
avatar

Posts : 88
Join date : 2012-12-13
Age : 32
Location : Indiana

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:17 pm

HisDaughter wrote:
IMO people should not be required to pay dues. If Unions are so good then let them sell their product, instead of using thug like tactics out of their anger.


I'm guessing you've never worked in a anti-union company, because the thug tactics are much stronger coming from the corporations that don't want a union. The union organizers are pretty tame these days.

Most companies do not have a set of policies for union and non-union employees, but those policies are night and day between union and non-union shops. If you don't join the union, you are still getting most of the benefits. It would be like trying to convince an illiterate person to support the library.
Back to top Go down
Hansc
Senior Member
Senior Member


Posts : 117
Join date : 2012-12-11
Location : S.F Bay Area

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:45 pm

Quote :
I don't believe unions can give money directly to a politician or party

You don't think they are cleaver or devious enough to find a way around this? I was a member of a large public employees union for nearly 30 years.

At our last strike, it was asked if we had a strike fund, since we wont be getting paid when we go out. We were told NO, the union is broke and the coffers were empty.

We asked WHY? Since our union took in nearly $50,000.00 per month! We were told that the union sends in 90% of its money to the main union HQ in Wash. D.C.

The Union bosses then use this money for lobbying (wine and dining Dem. party elites) and "expenses" (mostly personal partying).

The remaining 10% is given to local SF Bay Area union councils and "expenses."

We went on strike anyway. By coincidence, the main Union elites happened to be in town. They totally avoided and ignored the strike their own union was doing and instead did an unrelated photo tour with local Dem apparatchiks.




Back to top Go down
otherone
Senior Member
Senior Member
avatar

Posts : 120
Join date : 2012-12-11
Location : Oklahoma

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:46 pm

Well, i think Xerox had the very best approach to unions. They didn't want to deal with individual people in the manufacturing side of our business so when we built new planes and facilities the company demanded that people unionize. However the rest of the company we did not want union.

I would add that we had very little trouble with the union and the company because they paid us well and took very good care of us as well as business allowed.

When a non manufactureing part of the company got to the point that they wanted to for a union and a vote was called, the company came down from headquarters and they fired the entire management staff of that district. They held meetings with the workers and ask the workers if they wanted to keep any of the managers and unless the majority asked for an individual manager to stay, they simply fired them all.

We as workers were very company oriented and the company was very employee oriented and we never voted to unionize anywhere that I'm aware of. I think if companies treat their employees well and share the profits with them there is no need for a union.... I might add that after we lost all our patent rights in 1975, we nearly went bankrupt twice over the next 20 years.

I went three years without a raise in the late 70's while we all worked our fannies off to stay afloat. All the Japanese companies and Kodak 3M and Savin simply started manufacturing machines that we had spent billions of dollars in research for and they got it for nearly nothing.

In the 80's we spent millions of dollars giving certified quality management training to every single employee we had globally........ then we removed about 75% of our middle management by having decisions made on the local level. Our manager would come to our meetings and tell us what the company needed and walk out and we had to figure out how to do it..... we shared the best ways to do so and the company flourished... For 15 years I worked on a totally self managing workgroup...

Practically the entire Apple business came from our research center in Palo Alto California PARC. after Steve Jobs visited the center and started his business.

LoL.... I think I'm getting carried away into babbling...

Just to say that if companies take care of their people unions are a very unneeded expense for everyone.
Back to top Go down
http://sam.evans.org
HisDaughter
Love the forums!
Love the forums!
avatar

Posts : 64
Join date : 2012-12-11

PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:13 pm

[quote="BeyondBlessed"]
HisDaughter wrote:
IMO people should not be required to pay dues. If Unions are so good then let them sell their product, instead of using thug like tactics out of their anger.


Quote :
I'm guessing you've never worked in a anti-union company, because the thug tactics are much stronger coming from the corporations that don't want a union. The union organizers are pretty tame these days.

Yes I have worked in anti-union companies. There was no thug tactics because the employees didn't want the union as much as the company didn't want it. LOL In fact unions came in and tried to get attention and everyone I knew were not interested in going to any meetings.


Quote :
Most companies do not have a set of policies for union and non-union employees, but those policies are night and day between union and non-union shops. If you don't join the union, you are still getting most of the benefits. It would be like trying to convince an illiterate person to support the library.

What makes you think an illiterate person wouldn't support a library... I do see your limited logic but you are paint the illiterate as not caring about their children or the value of a library.

IMO if the union make it attractive to join then everyone will join. Sure there are some benefits gained by the unions, like I said they have a place in this economy. Yet I see them as toooo powerful and they cut their nose off despite their face.





Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills   

Back to top Go down
 

Mich. Lawmakers Okay 'Right to Work' Bills

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

 Similar topics

-
» U.K. Government rules Christians have no right to wear Crosses to work
» China gives £50 million in aid so mobile phones work on underground by the Olympics
» Work of Art: The Next Great Artist
» ATOS DECLARES DEAD PEOPLE CAN WORK
» George Osborne says welfare claimants will have to work for their dole.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Apostolic Christian Forum :: General :: News from around the world-